Open Letter: Forsake Not the Assembling
October 22, 2009
Re: Hebrews 10:25
Dear ?,
Thank you for your feedback. I can appreciate your viewpoint because for many years I shared it, as a pastor and teacher in Organized Religion. But I no longer have that viewpoint, and so I disagree with your conclusions and your advice. Here’s why.
As someone who values the written Word of God and teaches others to value it, I am particularly alert to any accusation that I am contradicting Scripture. However, in your case (and in the case of others with your mindset), I find that there is no contradiction of Scripture as you suggest, only a contradiction of your particular interpretation of Scripture. To suggest, as you do, that Hebrews 10:25 refers to attending church services on Sunday is quite a stretch of the imagination, since “church” as you attend it did not exist at the time the book of Hebrews was written. So I accept the Scripture, but I do not accept your interpretation. If I thought it meant what you think it means then I would be in church every time the doors were open. That was my manner of life for more than 25 years. But I was in error, and so are you. God showed me a “more excellent way”, and He can show you too, providing you allow Him to open the eyes of your heart (Eph. 1:17,18).
The crux of your error is based on several assumptions, among them, that the only way to assemble together with other believers is to go to church. This assumes only people who go to church are true believers; that there is no possibility of gathering together with followers of Jesus outside of a church service. That is incredibly naive and overlooks the fact that many do, in fact, gather together in the name of the Lord Jesus and enjoy Christian fellowship without being “attached to a local church body” – an interesting phrase you use that is not, in fact, mentioned in Scriptures, and certainly not in the manner in which you mean it.
Rather than rehash that whole discussion with you privately, I refer you back to the website, where the issue of the Ekklesia and the “church” has been discussed, re-discussed, and presented from a Biblical and Spirit-led viewpoint. Any of the writings in the “Ekklesia” section under the “Read” tab will be beneficial to you, but in particular “Gathering: But Not for the Better” delves into Hebrews 10:25 and a few others.
There are many Scriptural principles that support coming out of a corrupted system. God brought Abraham out of Chaldea, the Hebrews out of Egypt, the Jews out of Babylon, and the Christians out of Judaism. God Himself withdrew His presence from the Temple when Israel persisted in open rebellion against Him and declared it “Ichabod – the glory has departed.” “Come out of Babylon” is the present-day call of God to His people in the Book of Revelation. Since you are concerned about the Scriptures being contradicted, how do you justify your continued support of a system that in your own words is “grossly out of step with Christ and with Scripture”?
And as much as I value the Word of God, I believe God Himself is the “final authority” in deciding what Scripture actually means. God reserves the right to interpret His own Word and will not allow us to elevate the letter of the Word over the God of the Word, which is precisely why the Pharisees failed to recognize Jesus even though they continually searched the Scriptures. When God spoke to Peter and said, “Kill and eat,” Peter protested that this violated the the written Word of God; why would God command him to eat something that Scripture said is unclean? But God is right, and even when we cling to the Word of God and quote verses, we must still, in the end, submit to God Himself. There are many instances where following the letter of the Word puts us in disobedience to the Spirit of the Word, and God reserves the right to come in and correct us when we mishandle the Word – which I believe has happened with Hebrews 10:25 and with many others.
In addition, your suggestion to go back and submit to leadership in a carnal religious system is dangerous and unhealthy. That would be like telling a married woman to go back and submit to physical, sexual, and emotional abuse from her husband because the Bible says, “Wives, submit to your husbands.” Using Scripture to justify submission to spiritually abusive leadership encourages the abuser to continue abusing both you and others; is that really what you want to do? Why not just submit to the Lord Jesus and do what He says to do? Why not just submit to one another in love, as Scripture says? You decry the carnality of the church yet you continue to support that carnality with your presence, just as Lot came under the influence of Sodom and found it harder and harder to leave it or even understand why he should.
Lot was fortunate enough to have two angels take him by the hand and drag him out of Sodom, but God will not do that with you and me. He expects us to judge righteously and use spiritual discernment, balanced with Biblical wisdom and some good old- fashioned common sense. Should you spend some time perusing the site and actually reading and listening to the teachings without trying to bring “correction” I think you will find we have a very high regard for both the Scriptures and for what the Spirit is saying. If you are truly grieved by what “church” has come to represent then please ask God to show you what the proper response to it should be. Stop putting yourself and others into bondage through the ignorant application of Scripture that you received from a fleshly leadership that has a vested interest in having you support their system. It is your response to Hebrews 10:25 (not our response!) that determines whether or not your spiritual life will progress or deteriorate. The wisdom of Christ’s approach in our lives, versus your approach, is evidenced by the fruit He produces in us.
Blessings,
Chip Brogden
http://www.TheSchoolOfChrist.Org
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Again words of wisdom Chip Thank you
This is very, VERY well said Chip! SInce I am not gifted similarly, I do best to keep my mouth shut (ha). It’s encouraging to see more and more come to this same place of understanding. God bless you!
i like your write up which i quite understand. I hav been out of religious system for 6yrs now and have been enjoying following Christ outside the camp. However, there is this area i seem not to know how to handle. I am presently in an environment where It’s hard for me to have such fellowship with believers of similar understanding (home church meeting). I really need fellowship with Christians but I feel I should allow God direct me to one of these denominations around, where i will not be a member but partake of the fellowship with God. Kindly tell me your view about this.
Hi guys,
2 things. #1- I don’t think this is on your READ list. I got it by clicking on PROOF on your comment on Christ was Hidden. You might want to add this to the list.
#2- I went to the beach yesterday with a friend. I brought 1 of your articles to read, and she brought a devotional. Her devotional said this couple then decided that they needed to find a church. My friend starting laughing. She said she didn’t know that was going to be in there. I’m a slow processor, so I didn’t say anything.
I know my friend loves me, and its just that she doesn’t understand. But I was thinking, but that WAS church. “Whenever 2 or three are gathered together, I am in the midst of them”.
Am looking forward to reading this article.
Thank you so much for this site. It is very encouraging.
I thank God for His grace and faithfullness in that He promised that He would always have a witness on earth. As we approach the end of this age we are told that the darkness (deception) would increase greatly and that it would be a time of famine (of God’s word) and though I frequently feel as if I’m alone in the wilderness, like as with Elijah, God shows me He has 7000 priests a remanant, hidden in a cave. That there are people on this web site, in addition to other sites, that the Holy Spirit is awakening from a slumber, calling them to come out of her and into the light, is a balm to my mourning spirit.
Man, made in the image of God, has both physical and spiritual components. We, like Adam, live as physical, natural, earth men, blind to the spiritual realm, until God sends His Spirit to enlighten us. It is then that we begin to realize that the spiritual world overlies our physical existence and it is at this spiritual level that we chose either life or death. We are taught by God that our sin (rebellion to God’s rightful authority over His creation) condemns us to death but that through His Son, Christ Jesus, we can willingly chose to be restored to God eternally. Praise God! The problem is in not realizing that our soul is in a continous battle with eternal consequence.
The truth, Christ and His righteousness, must be birthed in us, a new creation, the spirit man, a son of God, restored to God’s image, His righteous character. Opposing this birth are satan, the world, and our biggest enenmy, our old, natural selfish self. We must follow Christ to the cross,die, and leave the old man in the grave so that we can ascend, in Christ, to life eternal. Our problem is that cross. We do not want to die, to forsake all, and follow Him, Christ, with our whole being. But a divided kingdom with one foot on Jacob’s ladder and one foot on earth will fall.
So what does this have to do with church? In the book of Proverbs we read of two women, one called wisdom, unto life and one a seducer,a flatterer. She has many faces wearing what ever face is necessary to snare a soul, to cause that soul to fall away from Christ. She is the mystery whore of Babylon, Jezebel, the mystery of iniquity, the woman who hid three measures of leaven into the kingdom of God. Yes, the kingdom grew physically but it spiritually became corrupt, leavened, puffed up, self exhaulted. Paganism and its “holy days” (holidays) were incorporated to make church acceptable to the natural man. Rather than marrying Christ, she, the church married the state. Judaism, the religion of the pharisees, as a corruption of old covenant law, contributed intermediary priestly men between God and man rather than the only necessary and sufficient High Priest, Christ Jesus. Physical temples (church buildings) were erected on every corner. This despite Christ’s teaching the Samaritan woman that He is the temple. Now the sabbath day was changed to appear different from Judaism but Christ is our sabbath rest. We are called to abide in Christ continuosly, everywhere. Not one hour on Sunday at the clay (brick) building giving 10% mammon, then back to the world the rest of the week.
We have been blinded, made drunk by drinking her wine, to the high calling in Christ Jesus. By their fruits you shall know them. A Christian America is morally decaying at an exponancial rate. We support war, oppression, and hate. We confuse this country with the coming Kingdom of God. Rather than one Spirit and one mind, we have countless denominations. Which one speaks life saving truth? Is it not an affront to God that He gave us the two witnesses, His spiritual word, as taught by His Holy Spirit, to the spirit man, the food for our soul,the bread of life, that we run to babylon in her priestly robes, a wolf in sheep’s clothing, appearing as a minister of light, to eat her bread and drink her wine. God will answer according to our idols. He will send the strong delusion 2Thel 2.11-12.
The problem is how can you grow a church when you preach taking up your cross daily. It is so much more pleasing to say I am rich (holy) and in need of nothing (perfect), as the Laodicean church and the pharisees before them think. Having a form of Godliness but denying the power (not submitted to the Holy Spirit-the foolish virgin). Like ancient Israel, called by God but without saltiness, without light.
God is calling us out, lest we share in her plagues. Will we heed the call, wake up from our slumber, and light the lamps, like the wise virgins or be caught at midnight with no more oil because we have so grieved the Holy Spirit, saying in our hearts, give me a Savior but not a Lord. The leaven of the pharisees is this: I praise God with my lips but my heart is far from Him-not willing to die to self and live in loving submission to God and His righteousness.
God has heretofore winked at our ignorance but judgement day is rapidly approaching. If we are not mourning over our own sinful estate and that of the corporate church we must seriously consider whether or not God’s Spirit still resides with us. Now it is time that we put away our childhood delusions and idols,our spiritual adultery,and stop eating her food (like the condemned priests of Baal), daily eating our spiritual manna, the Word, and pray fervantly and continuosly to God for forgiveness, for spiritual discernment,for conviction, for our lives.
Amen!!!!!
Jesus is Lord. For the pleasure of our Father, He saved us and is leading us toward maturity. Because Jesus is the Good Shepherd, He knows where we are, where He wants us to be and how to get us from the former to the latter.
The thing we need to understand is that we’re all not in the same place. When Israel crossed the Red Sea, I don’t believe they walked across in a single rank and reached the other side simultaneously. Some crossed to safety and waited while others were in transition while others still were waiting to cross. Nevertheless, in the end, they ALL reached safety. Like the children of Israel, we find ourselves in the same situation in various areas in our lives. In some areas, we’ve crossed over and gotten the victory; in other areas, we are in the process of crossing, struggling to make it to the other side yet all the while being changed from glory to glory. And since we are still breathing, I’m sure there are areas in our lives the Lord has yet to address. Regardless of where we are, we have been given a promise: When Jesus comes, we will see Him as He is for we will be like Him…all of us.
So here’s the question: How do we deal with each other while we’re all in transition? In reference to Heb 10:25 some believe that if one doesn’t attend a local church, one is not submitted to authority and thus out of the will of God. Others believe that because they’ve been called out of a local church, everyone else has been called out and anyone who remains in a local church is in a harlot system. Why do we judge another Man’s servant when He is able to make him stand?
Since it is the Father’s will that none should perish, our High Priest tends to all: the children, the young and the fully matured. Each has their own needs and He ministers to them as He sees fit. He leads us in or out according to the dictates of His own will. What we don’t recognize is when we judge others according to our standards, we actually question the Lord’s ability to shepherd His sheep. It is not up to us to judge Him as He goes about His Father’s business.
To those who have been called out, I humbly remind you that there is a case to be made for being in a local assembly. For the young, the local church is a place where they can learn, where they can be edified and built up, where they can make heart connections with like-minded brethren, and have access to body ministry that is available in the local house. It is also the place where they learn that many don’t “walk the talk” and begin to yearn for something more. Consider that no one is born fully grown and already prepared for the wilderness journey we ALL must take. (And though some have been wounded by those who remain in the camp, it by no means justifies our response to that wounding. Certainly, looking back allows us to see the working of God in our lives. In retrospect, isn’t the wounding a small price to pay for the closeness to God we now enjoy? Please forgive them, they know not what they do. Besides, eventually someone is going to have to go back there and get them. Moses was sent back for his brethren, Jesus and Paul taught in their temples and Peter and John testified there as well. We are not so special that we get to receive all the goodness of the Lord and sit on the sidelines. There is work to be done and as you know, “to whom more is given…”)
To those who believe that the Heb 10:25 requires all saints to gather at the church, I ask you to prayerfully consider that there is also a case to be made for not being in a local assembly. The Holy Spirit drove (compelled) Jesus into the wilderness where He was tested (Mk 1:11). Since no man is greater than his Master, shall we not also be tested if we are truly His disciples? The stones used to build Solomon’s Tabernacle (a type and shadow of the church) were hewn in the wilderness and were later set in and fitted together (I Kings 6:7). We ALL are living stones being fitly framed together into a holy habitation, and for many, the shaping takes place outside the camp. The woman of Revelation 12, a type of church, escapes persecution by fleeing into the wilderness where a place has been prepared for her by God (vs. 6). If the Holy Spirit is pushing someone to get to a place He’s already prepared for them, do you really think it’s wise to get in their way? With God at the helm, the wilderness is a place where one is made vulnerable in order to be proved and molded all the while being kept safe. It is a place where one learns to lean on their Beloved. (And if you haven’t reached this point yet, don’t worry: you will.) Lastly, consider the apostle John received the Revelation on the deserted Isle of Patmos and Jesus, Moses, John the Baptist, and Paul all came from outside the camp to perform the will of the Father.
The bottom line in this is that we are to follow the Lamb where ever He leads. If He calls you to a local assembly, be there. If He calls you out into the wilderness, go. Hear from God and do what He says. Walk after the Lord with all your heart and don’t let anyone cause you to stumble. And while you’re walking hard after Jesus, don’t cause anyone else to stumble. Understand we all don’t have the same calling and each of us is a unique expression of the Lord Jesus Christ. You see, God sets the solitary in families AND He brings out those who are bound with chains (Ps. 68:6). As we get our lessons walking the narrow path, He rarely explains what He’s doing with us, let alone what He’s doing with anyone else. It’s fruitless to read the bible with others in mind. When you read the bible, those Scriptures are written for you. When I read the bible, those Scriptures are written for me. We need to stop pointing the finger at others and concern ourselves with what the Lord is saying to us. And as Chip said, our response to what the Lord says to us determines our destiny, no one else’s.
The reason we have such discussions is because our vision has shifted from the Living to the dead. Somewhere along the line, eyes have been taken off of Jesus and what He is doing only to be placed on men and what they are doing. And while we debate these things, the Lord waits for His enemies to be made His footstool and the world continues to die. It’s no surprise why the world holds our beliefs in such contempt. Brothers and sisters, WE are the windows of Heaven. Christ in us is the hope of glory, the revelation of God and we are the closest thing the world will ever get to seeing Jesus. If only for the Lord’s sake, let us put aside the petty bickering, respect those whose paths differ from our own and press on toward maturity and the upward call of God.
With love in Christ Jesus,
Pat
When we are born again we are born into. The Kingdom of God, and it is built upon Jesus Christ, the Truth. The Truth is a Person, when the Person has you, the Truth has you, you can’t separate one from the other, and Christ becomes greater and greater as the Spirit of Truth leads us from Truth to Truth, that is the way of the Spiritual life. It is not that we become much better, but it’s the Truth that is revealing more of Christ to us. I believe we have to obey the Truth. If we don’t we will never be free. Now if that is true, how can a disciple, stay in a place that is false,that is not genuine, and not true. A disciple is led by the Spirit from Truth to Truth and we follow Him from faith to faith. The Truth is : The Church is His Body, Spiritually it is all in Christ.
Donny.
Thankyou Chip for your clear, precise, open letter regarding your response to the person who attempted to correct you on Hebrews 10:25. I always wondered just how to appropriately answer people when they said that to me. Then I realized the people that said it to me didnt really care to hear my answer. They just had that religious “I know I’m right” spirit. Now, if it comes up in a conversation about not being involved with a “local body” I tell people that since I left the “church” (quite a few years ago) I love God more then ever! What can they say then? Who will correct me for loving God?
Thankyou Chip.
your sister,
Betsy
Its been 25 years since departing form the Harlot system that stands on the street corner calling men in the twilight hour to come in. She has stolen water that seem to be sweet at first but leads one into being part of the congregation of the dead unknown to them at that time.
Our heavenly Father has been faithful all these years and still keeps us in His care as He daily provides us new bread and blessed wine afresh for our growth in the new creation that He has given birth.
We know death and life work in us yet today always hoping to be able to share His love to all He bring across our journey in this foreign land as ambassadors of our heavenly country we now see by the faith His first begotten ,Jesus Christ, our brother.
His sheep here His voice and will not follow another. That is the only reason all of His will come out of the false dead woman that calls herself the church but is really a great deception that could fool the very elect if possible but cannot because of the intercession of Our High Priest. Only by each individual receiving a personal revelation of the Gospel that Paul received of Jesus Christ can one walk in the truth of the way being born of God.
There is another gospel and jesus that is acursed because it is of the natural man which the world listens and which the Harlot woman snared her great multitude of deceived which all we were of before be called to come out of her.
Our prayer and travil is to Christ be formed in them by the Holy Spirit of God and our Father.
Kenny
I believe God is sufficient enough to get anyone out of these places that hear His voice. I had to stay in a church until I was in extreme torment before God let me leave. But, He did use the scriptures to lead me and help me understand “why” I had to leave. And when someone cried out “the Christ is here” – the Spirit said “Get out!” .. That was about the last day I was in the place. The preacher mutilated and perverted the covenent and put himself in the scriptures where Jesus belonged (Abomination.)
I have to believe that God left me there (even in horrible torment) – not just for the torment of it – but to truly learn discernment and be an eye witness to what men can do with His Gospel. He would let me know things to come before I’d get to church and hear or see it. Experiencing these things is far different than just learning of it in the scriptures. We can then become a witness for the things Jesus said would come to pass and warn others of the dangers. I still warn others in the town where I live of this man and that church.
It made me a woman to pity God far more than I know how to pity people.
PS: Jesus made sure when I was suppose to be there. He’d make sure I got up on Sunday mornings – well in time to make it. When “we” were done there and nearing the end – He quit being so good at getting me out of bed to go. Isn’t He funny
Some coming togethers just are not for the good (or cease to be any longer).