October 22, 2009
Re: Hebrews 10:25
Dear ?,
Thank you for your feedback. I can appreciate your viewpoint because for many years I shared it, as a pastor and teacher in Organized Religion. But I no longer have that viewpoint, and so I disagree with your conclusions and your advice. Here’s why.
As someone who values the written Word of God and teaches others to value it, I am particularly alert to any accusation that I am contradicting Scripture. However, in your case (and in the case of others with your mindset), I find that there is no contradiction of Scripture as you suggest, only a contradiction of your particular interpretation of Scripture. To suggest, as you do, that Hebrews 10:25 refers to attending church services on Sunday is quite a stretch of the imagination, since “church” as you attend it did not exist at the time the book of Hebrews was written. So I accept the Scripture, but I do not accept your interpretation. If I thought it meant what you think it means then I would be in church every time the doors were open. That was my manner of life for more than 25 years. But I was in error, and so are you. God showed me a “more excellent way”, and He can show you too, providing you allow Him to open the eyes of your heart (Eph. 1:17,18).
The crux of your error is based on several assumptions, among them, that the only way to assemble together with other believers is to go to church. This assumes only people who go to church are true believers; that there is no possibility of gathering together with followers of Jesus outside of a church service. That is incredibly naive and overlooks the fact that many do, in fact, gather together in the name of the Lord Jesus and enjoy Christian fellowship without being “attached to a local church body” – an interesting phrase you use that is not, in fact, mentioned in Scriptures, and certainly not in the manner in which you mean it.
Rather than rehash that whole discussion with you privately, I refer you back to the website, where the issue of the Ekklesia and the “church” has been discussed, re-discussed, and presented from a Biblical and Spirit-led viewpoint. Any of the writings in the “Ekklesia” section under the “Read” tab will be beneficial to you, but in particular “Gathering: But Not for the Better” delves into Hebrews 10:25 and a few others.
There are many Scriptural principles that support coming out of a corrupted system. God brought Abraham out of Chaldea, the Hebrews out of Egypt, the Jews out of Babylon, and the Christians out of Judaism. God Himself withdrew His presence from the Temple when Israel persisted in open rebellion against Him and declared it “Ichabod – the glory has departed.” “Come out of Babylon” is the present-day call of God to His people in the Book of Revelation. Since you are concerned about the Scriptures being contradicted, how do you justify your continued support of a system that in your own words is “grossly out of step with Christ and with Scripture”?
And as much as I value the Word of God, I believe God Himself is the “final authority” in deciding what Scripture actually means. God reserves the right to interpret His own Word and will not allow us to elevate the letter of the Word over the God of the Word, which is precisely why the Pharisees failed to recognize Jesus even though they continually searched the Scriptures. When God spoke to Peter and said, “Kill and eat,” Peter protested that this violated the the written Word of God; why would God command him to eat something that Scripture said is unclean? But God is right, and even when we cling to the Word of God and quote verses, we must still, in the end, submit to God Himself. There are many instances where following the letter of the Word puts us in disobedience to the Spirit of the Word, and God reserves the right to come in and correct us when we mishandle the Word – which I believe has happened with Hebrews 10:25 and with many others.
In addition, your suggestion to go back and submit to leadership in a carnal religious system is dangerous and unhealthy. That would be like telling a married woman to go back and submit to physical, sexual, and emotional abuse from her husband because the Bible says, “Wives, submit to your husbands.” Using Scripture to justify submission to spiritually abusive leadership encourages the abuser to continue abusing both you and others; is that really what you want to do? Why not just submit to the Lord Jesus and do what He says to do? Why not just submit to one another in love, as Scripture says? You decry the carnality of the church yet you continue to support that carnality with your presence, just as Lot came under the influence of Sodom and found it harder and harder to leave it or even understand why he should.
Lot was fortunate enough to have two angels take him by the hand and drag him out of Sodom, but God will not do that with you and me. He expects us to judge righteously and use spiritual discernment, balanced with Biblical wisdom and some good old- fashioned common sense. Should you spend some time perusing the site and actually reading and listening to the teachings without trying to bring “correction” I think you will find we have a very high regard for both the Scriptures and for what the Spirit is saying. If you are truly grieved by what “church” has come to represent then please ask God to show you what the proper response to it should be. Stop putting yourself and others into bondage through the ignorant application of Scripture that you received from a fleshly leadership that has a vested interest in having you support their system. It is your response to Hebrews 10:25 (not our response!) that determines whether or not your spiritual life will progress or deteriorate. The wisdom of Christ’s approach in our lives, versus your approach, is evidenced by the fruit He produces in us.
Blessings,
Chip Brogden
http://www.TheSchoolOfChrist.Org
| FOR FURTHER STUDY If you liked this post, you may be interested in these items. |
|
Related Audio Teachings:   |
|
| Related Articles: » Gathering, But Not for the Better! » No Fellowship? No Problem! » Lonely, But Never Alone |
|
Thank you Chip,
Praise God for giving a shephard understanding.
So many Church Pastors pushing for Big Strong Churches.
Strength In Numbers, Strength in Wealth…To Change The World?
~ But to The Church
who Jesus sets the door open for?
As The Pillars 0f New Jerusalem?
Who He will keep from the hour of trial
which will come upon the whole world?
Are Of Little Strength! – Rev.7-13
How many Pastors desire A Church 0f Little Strength?
I find it interesting that Jesus said
those of just a Little Strength?
Are able to Keep His Word! And Not Defile His Name!
It is He Himself who sets the door open for them!
So then, what are Pastors so worried about anyway???
Maybe Pastors are more concerned about
their Word and their Name.
Sacrificing many sheep for their own Pedistool 0f Praise!
Thank you Chip for not
sacrificing His sheep for Your Ministry. -
Dear Brother Chip,
Praise God! Thank you so much and to all the loving and beautiful sisters and brothers who responded. At last the long dry wilderness is rained upon.
The hope is alive and strong that my Lord will lead me to people locally that have answer to the call of coming out. Till then I am blessed to be able to connect with you and others.
Love and Blessings to all
Hello Chip,
I love your Christ-centered teaching! I am not so hung up on religion as such. I still go to church and do not condemn those who don’t. I go to a small local church and I must say that there are things that are great and things that I not so great. I have learnt so much from you that I have learnt to follow Christ no matter what situation I am in. Your articles are a blessing and have taught me to live for Christ. To me this is all that matters. I personally have friends who love Christ and are part of a church and those who love the Lord and are not part of a church. As one brother pointed out earlier following the lead of the Holy Spirit is key. If the Lord says I want you to get out of organised religion then you get out. If the Lord would have you stay then you do.
As long as those who go to church learn to follow Christ then that’s alright. Maybe if it was not for organised religion I wouldn’t be a christian. My opinion is you get saved in organised religion and then you want to know more about Christ because it’s His Spirit that lives in us and so you pursue Him and this is how I found a friend who introduced me to your site in 2000. I love your teaching!
May the Lord Bless You.
Farayi
Dear Brother and Sister,
I am very happy to hear from other saint who are in agreement
with Brother Chip.It is a matter of time but we must come out
from the church building system or O C especially for those who have ear to hear the word of God.
I praise God for what is doing to his people around the word.
God bless you all .
Ambakisye
I think that I, in common with almost everyone else who has written here, have frequently had this verse stuffed in my face by those who were disconcerted by my not attending a ‘recognised’ church. I had a very simple understanding of the verse: If I go to church yet no-one is actually willing to be real with me, then it makes a complete nonsense of what the verse is saying.
Of course in practice there is never any opportunity to justify our position through the scriptures. Those that are open to hearing what we have to say, can see in our lives that we are following Him, and are much more interested in how we can help them get closer to Jesus! Those that are not have already put their fingers in their ears and are saying ‘La la la’ in a very loud voice so that they won’t hear unless we agree with them! Just as Jesus said quoting the words from Isaiah about listening, but not hearing.
It is sad that so many don’t see that to step away from organised religion because of recognising a calling from Jesus requires faith, it requires a total dependency, it requires a dying to our ambitions to ‘be something’ for God, there is no security of support of an organisation. It often costs us friendship, and may even cause our own families to reject us, there is no-one there to bring us encouragement, but rather people will slander us and set about trying to undermine us, whilst our hearts break with love for those rejecting us.
Funny thing though – isn’t that exactly the path Jesus calls all of us to walk, like a seed falling into the ground and dying?
The interesting position that I find myself in now, is actually being part of a fellowship again. This has brought yet another set of difficulties. Even though everyone acknowledges that we want to be walking Jesus’ Way, and not be trapped by religion – the reality can be quite different.
One of the difficulties is that even as we seek to simply be a part of the Ekklesia, the established churches around look at us as ‘phew! they are back in the fold. Ok they have some slightly odd views, but at least they meet together and are obeying the bit in Hebrews 10′. The persecution from other Christians stops, and they will even send people to us to encourage us. Just as much as they didn’t want to have anything to do with us as individuals, now that we meet together we are ‘bona fide’.
The persecution now becomes very much more subtle; because now the need to hold onto Jesus doesn’t appear so desperate, because the attack is not constantly there in our faces. Now the attack comes from our taking ‘too much’ rest from the battle, by finding that those added to us by evangelism haven’t gone through the same experience of rejection by formal religion, so they don’t recognise the danger. We need to be desperately hanging on to Him through thick and thin, well we have done the ‘thin’ and that was a battle, now we have the ‘thick’ will that make us fat?
The challenge to ‘come out from among them’ still remains for the many who are caught up in religion. The challenge of how to stand as we become more in number and start really ‘meeting together’ maybe even more difficult to face. We still need to die to our flesh to become alive in Him, and that is the key to seeing His work continue through us as a body, rather than us as individuals.
God bless you all
God bless you dear brother Chip and all beloved brothers and sisters in the Lord,
i also concur with the issue of life and death ,presence /absence of Jesus in any meeting.in our context i discovered that most of the so called believers are motivated by good and bad and they don’t worry whether Jesus is happy with it or not. i have no business with an organized religion and my sole purpose is the Lord Jesus as i am living with a life that has a definite purpose and race. i finally understood that people in the religious are most dangerous than unbeliever for protesting the Lord as they have learned this ‘wisdom’ form the dead system.nevertheless the Lord is bringing His people out of Babylon and let us pray that the Lord continue to open the eyes of many in this regard. To tell you the truth i was one who used to think that i would perish if i only go out of the religious system even for a week. Millions of Christians in Ethiopia are not only dissatisfied with the Religious system but also very angry with it although they have not yet discovered the root cause of the problem.
Glory to the Lord Jesus!
I am sitting here stunned.
My now former pastor just informed me that anyone who doesn’t attend church regularly is deceived and lost.
He also told me that he heard I told someone something inappropriate about him and a list of other things…I’ve been accused of feeling inappropriately about him and that’s just a lie and I’m feeling really upset and vulnerable right now.
Thank you so much for your website. That alongside of my Bible gives me the support I need right now. Not to mention my Lord, Jesus. The only good thing to come of this is that I’ll be leaning on His arms a lot now and in the future.
I don’t see myself ever going to church again. Now I must get to the business of praying for that man and the people who attend that church. And forgiving him and them.
There are two scriptures that comes to my mind..I didn’t read all the responses so don’t know if anyone shared them. The first is when Jesus said “how can you believe, giving honor to one another?” If we still hold onto any form of heirarchy or put some ministers on a pedestal we are in danger of losing our own faith. We can’t abdicate our responsibility to hear and obey the Holy Spirit for ourselves. The second He gave me is that “we are to know no one after the flesh”. SO many times the traditions of men and the status quo keep us from true fellowship in The Lord. We must return to the simplicity of the 1st century church meeting house to house and sharing body soul and spirit with eashc other exhorting each other as the day approaches.
Assembling together unto the Lord is not what many Christians assume or teach that it is. The living Word of God speaking to us by the Spirit is not to be set aside by a narrowed theological viewpoint (tradition) that mishandles biblical text as a law. A deeper issue beyond assembling together is the “how” and the “why” we should assemble unto the Lord as His people.
The sad but true realization that traditional Christianity continues to ignore is that there is NO scriptural basis for the clergy (elders/pastors/bishops) vs. the laity (pew-warmer, chair-sitter, lay-person) structuring of our current-day faith communities.
It was understood by ancient Israel that there was the Levitical priestly caste vs the common Hebrew. That was God’s way then. It was as well understood by Gentile religious people that perhaps God made some of their people to be spiritually strong and the priest/prophet/leader caste system evolved before and continues to this day after the Levitical priesthood came into being.
BUT . . . the the Son of God, the Living Word of God, Jesus, the High Priest came, served, died and was resurrected — and intercedes even now for ALL sinners.
By faith we now see and know via the Spirit of Truth and the Living Word of God that the Levitical Priesthood ENDED with Jesus’ perfect Priest/Prophet/Leader work of sacrificial salvation.
As well, all other Gentile-based or pagan-born systems of religious worship to the gods or the god — are empty, ineffective ritual and DEAD tradition. These systems of religious behavior vaunt themselves up before the Holy One in blind and stubborn fleshly defiance and ignorance of God’s new Temple, God’s new Church, and God’s Son. They are a dangerous alternative to Christ alone.
How dare we go quietly along with any error that lifts one man above the other? How dare we call any man our leader? How dare we say we serve the Lord by bowing before any pulpit?
We are the temple! We are the Church! Christ is the ONLY Head!
God forgive us — for our not functioning as His Body.
God forgive us — for not honoring our Head, the Lord Jesus.
We are all to be functioning saints; priests and warriors, bringing in the kingdom of God, being raised by the Spirit into elders among the flock. We are all equal before God — all His children by faith.
God respects none of our traditions, none of our whitened steeples, none of our well-hewn pulpits nor any of our cherished post-Levitical, post-Hellenistic, post-Catholic, post-Protestant, post-religious vanities.
He is only looking for His Son in our midst.
The Lord inhabits the praises of His people.
May God deliver us from our oh so comfortable idolatry to religion and may He deliver all its blinded servants.
Dear Chip…lol… there were times in the past, that I wish I had that voice to say that.
Reasons to hold tight to Organized Religion:
1.As long as one believes a building is the church,…one does NOT have to be concerned with “BEING” the CHURCH.
2.As long as one goes once or twice a week to listen to another
declare the word(?) one does NOT feel bad about being too busy to bother with the studying of the Word themselves!
3.It is MUCH easier to follow, than to lead,…after all that requires a bit of SPIRITUAL guts!
SO VERY GLAD “YOU” HAVE THEM, BRO. CHIP !