Yes Koen, that is the point of my article – that your “elder” in the Ekklesia is the one who is spiritually mature, irregardless of their physical age. They are not elders just because someone elects them or puts them into leadership. It is a matter of spiritual life, not title or position. Anything else results in the problems you describe. I like your description: “the one who died most.” Very good. Blessings to you too.

Hi again Chip,
many thanks for your reply and explanation.
The conclusion should be then that we have to deviate from the original biblical concept of “elder” because it doensn’t work anymore in the reality of today’s system of churches, we, men, have created. Leadership in the church is too often in the hands of young men/couples. Sometimes because of lack of alternative and sometimes because “friends of friends are friends”. Immature men have to give leadership and make major mistakes. But lets face reality today: even older leaders make these mistakes and on the other hand, I can imagine that this must have been a reality 2000 years ago. Age does not equal good leadership. Not today and not in those days. I wonder how they coped with that 2000 years ago and before that. Was older age really = wisdom = leadership ? I can hardly believe that. I think I certainly depends on what an individual does with the faith he received. Jesus says, plant it and it will grow. I think that’s the critical point in the process: planting and letting it dy and grow. Perhaps we have to invent a new name for “elder”. Something like “master sower and reaper” or “the one who died most”…:-). There’s (probably) no relevance to age at all. Do we have to conclude then that God meant “sower and reaper” but made a mistake and said “elder” ? I will read whatever response but it’s certainly one to keep for eternity and ask Him face to face 🙂
Bless you Chip in your audacity

Thanks for your feedback!

Actually “presbuteros” just means elder, older, advanced in life, senior. If we take its basic definition then it works just fine in English and in Greek. In Israel the old men were considered the wisest and most experienced, so they were always elected to leadership. In the Ekklesia it is not a matter of age or election but spiritual maturity, and it is the Holy Spirit who appoints. So you see the trouble is not the word itself but the meaning we attach to it. Maybe that will help in your discussion the next time it comes up.

As another example, the word “pastor” means “to shepherd”. But somehow the meaning we associate with that word got changed from a function into a title. Language has a way of saying whatever we think it says. But the Holy Spirit bears witness.

Thanks again for reading Koen, and may God bless your stand for the truth there in Belgium!

This is not a criticism, just an observation.
Keep up the good work.
One in Him
Koen Welter
Belgium

Thanks, mike! That’s an encouraging testimony that God causes all things to work for the good of those who love Him – even theological studies. 😀

The Charismatic movement (generally speaking) never matured beyond the need for these manifestations, and they continue to emphasize them, even to the point of accepting things as being “from God” that a more spiritually discerning person would immediately reject as carnal.

However, if a person has NEVER experienced the Spirit-filled life including the spiritual gifts then I don’t believe spiritual maturity is possible. We cannot mature out of something we have yet to experience. So the presence or lack of spiritual gifts in a person or in an assembly is not enough by itself to judge maturity or immaturity in spiritual things; one must look at their history to see if they are progressing, standing still, or moving backward.